SOUTRA GILMOUR IS INTERESTED IN HOW THEATRE FEELS IMMEDIATE AND CLOSE

M: We have been studying your incredibly captivating set design for Waiting for Godot. The funnel appears to be almost Trompe-l’œil in its effect—suggesting flatness and depth simultaneously. We interpreted it as a portal to nowhere, a journey that narrows to a single point. The more I looked at it, the more trapped I felt; I could sense it trying to suck me in. Could you tell us a bit about the initial conversations you and Jamie had while conceptualizing this design? And is our above speculation indeed what your intention was?

SOUTRA: I like your descriptions of Godot—flatness and depth/portal/single point… it’s definitely all of those things, plus perhaps the sun and moon, a dystopian capsule, a place of limbo… I read someone described it as inside the tree. I think most importantly it’s whatever you want/ interpret it to be. It’s your own meaning—in a play about meaning or perhaps absence of it.

It’s a play that has a pedigree that allows for a really interesting poetic journey. I started thinking about it properly about a year out and given how abstract it probably now feels, it has its roots in very real things. Its journey began in the New York Subway when we were doing Sunset (Boulevard). Stories I watched play out on my late night journey home after tech, homeless night time rituals in the shared public space of the subway car. Contained in a metal tube on a subterranean road. No natural light much like in a Theatre, the sun and moon an electric light overhead.

It made me think about the modern experience of travel and the modern version of roads in the country as asked for by Beckett. At one point in our process Jamie was quite excited by the concrete tunnels that pass through hillsides, curving out of view: what if we were at the end of the world, the roads empty of cars and the very last tree bursting through the tarmac lit from above by a fluorescent strip?

We sat with these types of thoughts for a while, but new work with Alex and Keanu really reestablished the need of the play to be less cinematic than that, less sure we are in a real place. There is a sense of being watched by others, a sense of seeing ghosts. There is a line in the play where they describe their surroundings as a compartment void, and so we took our curved concrete tunnels and looked at more abstract isolated sculptural versions which instantly released a flood of meaning.

Playing with them in the space, stretching them to open up to the sight lines of the theatre until we had what you see now. We introduced our moon which instantly brings night with its searing electric light. In some ways coming full circle to the first impulse in the New York F train. It’s a reflection of both my need to work from the personal, never the general and Jamie’s desire to reflect the wider contemporary world. When we showed it to Keanu and Alex, Keanu said: “You have made it a new play”. Which seemed perfect.

M: What we love most about your productions with Jamie is how you tackle the classics (Beckett, Edmond Rostand, Shakespeare) with absolute irreverence and radical deconstruction—dragging these texts into the contemporary zeitgeist. Is that also how you see your work? – Do you enjoy this approach? It must be wonderful to see people, especially the younger generation, loving these texts again thanks to your plays.

SOUTRA: Jamie is particularly interested in reinvention of The Classics of course, it’s a great way to draw new audiences into the Theatre. A recognisable title made as completely contemporary work which draws energy from the world we inhabit right now. Sometimes looked at anew by a contemporary writer, but as often just framed anew by us.

I, as perhaps seen in the Godot process, am interested in how Theatre feels immediate and close, that can be spatially, aesthetically, atmospherically or in its utterly contemporary nature. After all, historically, Theatre looked like its time. Medieval players wore medieval clothes as did Shakespeare and the Kings Men at The Globe wear Elizabethan clothes. The idea of costume that looks back in time is relatively recent, mainly a 20th century pursuit and whilst sometimes it’s useful, it can also create distance from meaning. Sometimes the most useful thing is to hold both periods at the same time. Sunset is a good example of this where everything they wore was modern but there was nothing that could not have been worn in 1950. It had a clarity of colour and shape that allowed it to live between both times but no period detailing or colour to take us out of now. Unadorned.

M: Your trademark together is creating ‘grand minimalism’ out of typically maximalist theater. I can imagine that constructing a minimalistic set (visible mechanics of the stage, bare back walls, perhaps a row of chairs for actors when they are not performing, modern-day dress) requires a lot of discipline and care. What is it that you most hope to convey with this? Can you give us an insight into how this ‘aesthetic’ was born?

SOUTRA: Some of our most recent work over the last five or six years has felt more unadorned perhaps than previous work, more stripped of any naturalism but your term grand is interesting, as I would agree it does not in turn feel empty as might be suggested by the word minimalism. It feels full but we are using more ephemeral materials, space, darkness, haze, confetti, film, transparency, place. Choices of what is and isn’t there to shape our space and the audience’s experience.

Godot is of course a famous minimalist play and somehow that has prompted a very bold sculptural reply, something that is sort of everything and nothing at the same time. It’s probably a good description of what we have been playing with over the last few years, maybe its own full stop. Let’s see… we don’t like to get stuck.

M: Your costumes for Mary, Queen of Scots are outrageously good. How much fun was it to dive into Elizabethan style—while still managing to make the costumes feel utterly contemporary?

SOUTRA: This ballet was a very special opportunity (and although not with Jamie, very much in the vein of). To do a new contemporary full-length Ballet about two of history’s most extraordinary women back in Scotland for The Edinburgh Festival with Sophie Leplane a French choreographer and James Bonas an English director.

We always knew we wanted it to hold the fine line between being both believably in its time and importantly in ours. For the French Court I mixed the practical needs of the dancers with the Parisian chic of Dior and Chanel: the classic black and white, fine tailoring pearl details and a chic minimalism. Catherine Medici and her son brought a more Italianate silver decor of say Miu Miu or Prada. For the English court I looked to the second Elizabethan age of Bowie, Clockwork Orange, Ska punk, rabble rousers in ‘God Save The Queen’ T-shirts. Lastly, the Scottish Court brought the colour of heather and the fine tailoring of men in pleated skirts meeting the dress of the clergy. 

The Scottish Ballet and the wardrobe team there (headed by Mary Mullen) put great resources, time and care into the finish of their work. We had the best ballet makers from around the UK who bring so much craft and expertise to the work, elevating it to something really special. I think their finesse mixed with my irreverence brought a very particular sparky energy which audiences have really responded to. 

The whole work is very complete. incredible dancers with beautiful lighting and projection and an incredible score. I am excited for its return at Sadlers Wells in the Spring.

M: I’ve read that no sooner is one production over, you are onto the next. You and Jamie work at a rapid pace. – So, what can we expect next?

SOUTRA: In terms of what next with Jamie in the spirit of being in the moment we don’t know yet! For me I am into two or three new projects. A project with the American Director Whitney White at The RSC—a kind of  Rock Shakespeare and The 30th Anniversary production of Fame the Musical—one of the great movies of my youth amongst other things in development… An eclectic mix as always.

ONE MINUTE WITH MELODRAMA

FAVOURITE PERFORMING ARTS VENUE?
SG: The monumental Olivier Theatre at the National Theatre in London for its very special relationship between the stage and auditorium. Lasdun’s take on a modern Greek amphitheatre, strong curved concrete jaws connecting the stage space with the audience’s seating. As a space it has a central role in the dynamics of the whole building in plan which gives it a very particular sensation.The key to designing in that space is to harness rather than disrupt its spatial energy and it’s always a voyage of discovery to find new ways to do that.

FIRST SHOW YOU EVER SAW?
SG:The Original production of Rocky Horror Show at The Kings Road Theatre at 3 years old followed by Annie at The Victoria Palace for my 7th birthday.

MOST RECENT SHOW?
SG: Maybe Happy Ending playing at The Belasco next door to Waiting for Godot. It clearly really appeals to an audience looking for some wonder and hope in a very challenging world and who can blame them.

WHAT DO YOU LOVE MOST ABOUT THE THEATRE?
SG: The two things I love about Theatre in particular are A. That it is a microcosm of the wider world, people of an enormous range of trades/jobs come together to make something from theatre cleaners to metal workers to carpenters to hairdressers to tailors to social media content makers to bar staff. I think people imagine it’s just Actors, Directors and writers and yet they are only a tiny fragment of the Theatre Industry and B. That in my particular role as Designer I get to work with over 40 types of artisans and craftspeople from pattern cutters to armorers, scenic painters, milliners and beyond. It’s an immense privilege and a constant learning experience.

GO-TOO PRE/POST THEATRE DINNER/DRINKS?
SG: I will choose NY as that’s away from home so I am out more. At home I am generally tucked up with my family.. I always stay downtown rather than Midtown so any going out is pre and post rehearsals. My favourite choices are: Pre—The Butchers Daughter for breakfast on Kenmare Street for their dairy-free menu. Post rehearsals—Tacombi on Elizabeth Street for Tacos with colleagues. Late night—vegan ice cream at Van Leeuwen on Spring St…

WHO/WHAT INSPIRED YOUR CAREER?
The Show that inspired me to attempt this career was Guys and Dolls at The NT designed by John Gunter (again, in The Olivier) as it was a great example of putting a whole world or city on stage, the road, the lights, the neon signs, the architecture, the shop fronts. I had grown up in The West End so it seemed reflective of the endeavour of putting my world on stage … which in some ways I have done ever since…